TRANSCRIPT
Globetrotters Wanted | Navigating Life, Business, and Adventure
Iva 1:07
Welcome to the Mom Bosses Abroad podcast. And we are diving into the third part of this multi-part episode that we put together in this brand new season. And it's all about the living abroad part because we are mom bosses. Living abroad. So today we are diving deep into this particular aspect this intersection part right where it connects our role as mothers, it connects our roles of ourselves in our business and in our work and pursuing our passions or those side projects that we cherish and we're doing it in a land that is very far far, far, far away from home. So welcome, Des, to having this conversation and discussing a little bit of what has been our experience within this.
Desiree 2:06
Yes. I'm really excited to talk about this. For some people, of course, they're very new. I've just been in touch with so many new parents in the school as the school year just started, who are abroad for the first time and you still see that like that excitement, you see that like insecurity, you see the fear a little bit, you see the overwhelm at times the pure, like adventurous spirit and then it's very interesting sort of the different emotions people go through when they first go abroad. As we've been abroad for a little bit longer, I've been abroad since I'm 11 years old just because my family were also working overseas so I've been moving I'm you know, I've been sort of yeah, I don't know any other life than this. So I'm really, really excited to dive in and to really seeing what does it mean though to be abroad now when we have our own family to guide, when we have our own children to take along this this path and our digital baby our businesses, right? What does that mean to having that abroad as opposed to at home?
Iva 3:31
There's so many multi-layered levels to this living abroad, as you say, and you have described it so perfectly in the sense that it's not the same for somebody that has never been abroad to be doing it for the first time. It's not the same for somebody that is doing it on their own than somebody that is moving their whole family across the globe. If not the same if you are finding that you're doing a little bit, begrudgingly, like you really liked what you had, but then this opportunity came along and now it's time to take one for the team and it's not the same if you are the one leading this change because you are the one spearheading it in a way. And we talked about this in previous episodes. I remember in Season One, Episode Six that it was the context of the traveling spouse and how it tends to be_it's not always like that, but it tends to be that the majority of the cases is the women following the husband, the spouse who is leading the move and saying: hey, I got this amazing opportunity. Why don't we take advantage of it? And then it's sort of taking the backseat to everything right? Okay, let me then quit my job if the person was doing a regular you know, corporate type of job, it's taking and overseeing I guess the whole transition aspect, the whole settling everybody in falls on my lap because my spouse is off to the office immediately after arriving and then I'm the one having to make the choices about what is the best place to move into, what are the right schools, you know how to figure everything out. And as you say, it can be very daunting, it can be very overwhelming. There could be a big change in languages, in culture. Right? So it's so multifaceted. There are so many layers to it, but I guess at the end of the day, there is a move and there is a separation from the life that you knew. And this unknown where you decide what to expect, what's going to happen, and you need to sort it out as you go.
Desiree 6:06
Yeah, it's like we're navigating motherhood. Every day is the first time for us anyways going through things with the ages that our kids are right everything is already new. And we've got to figure that out. And then on top of that, we've got to figure that out in a different country. In the language we don't speak like asking for things or I just had a couple of trips to City Hall and the forms that I got to fill out were in Japanese I couldn't even read them. You know, so it's just so interesting that things you've got to navigate on top of the things you're already trying to figure out for the first time.
Iva 6:44
Right. Right. And, and it is that aspect that we want to continue exploring for the rest of the season. You know of bringing more highlight into what that entails and maybe creating different approaches to it because it's not a ‘one size, fits all type of situation. But I do think that there is an aspect that may be separates a lot of people that have this inkling or they have this desire or they are maybe in your case, because you didn't know anything different growing up, like your parents were the ones leading the way for you in which for you it became so normal to be here and there and then over here. But if that wasn't your case, but you still have that within you, you know, the sense of adventure maybe, the sense of I think the world is bigger than this and I am even though it feels like okay, a bit of fun, but unknown. I still want to go and see what's on the other side. Yes. I still want to know how people actually live out in this culture, in this weather. I had the opportunity to meet some, women that had just moved as recently as five weeks ago, here in in Singapore yesterday and you could see that energy that you're describing, but they were still trying to take it all in. And the one of the things that struck with them the most out of the gate was the weather because they were coming from Europe where the weather is very different. You know the temperature is different. You have four seasons and whatever and it's this heat and humidity that never goes away. No matter what month of the year. Oh my god. It's just like, What do I do with this and there are things that you cannot change. You know, this is where we're at. For example, I I grew up in Latin America, and in Panama, and when we celebrate Christmas for me Christmas was always about going to the beach. Celebrate Christmas and New Year's. It was always at the beach. And it's part of what you consider to be the Christmas season. But you still have the Christmas trees. You still have the Christmas decorations, trying to imitate snow and snowmen and you have all the you know, the traditional Christmas things, but in the middle of summer. For other people it's like a short circuit, because they're like, what, there's no coats. There's no scarves. I don't have gloves,
Desiree 9:54
Yeah, no, I totally. I get it. It's so funny. For me, it was actually funny because I spent the last probably good 10 years in Southeast Asia where I was in that like you only have that one season which is hot. Right? And then moving to Japan four years ago, where we have four seasons again. So I'm like, oh my god, it's getting cold. What do I do? And now having that with kids, I'm like, Oh man, I got to buy them new clothes like every few months. I cannot reuse the same clothes all year round till they literally grow out of it. But so it's something as simple as the weather right that throws people they have to adjust to cultures mindsets, the customs and as you say it can be it can be as simple as the weather.
Iva 10:45
And it can also be as complex as answering the question of saying, How much do I want to preserve my traditions and my culture within this new country, or new culture and how much to absorb and how much do I want to integrate myself in this way and what is the right_here comes to dreaded word_ balance to that? It can really be in our head like all these questions as we are navigating the complexities of moving to a place where we don't know the lay of the land the moment that we get there. Yeah, and another thing that I want to throw out there and we want to continue exploring in the coming conversations is has the world effectively changed since COVID. People really changed their approach into how they travel how they are able to appreciate the fact that they can now come and go as before when we had like this big, big, big long, it felt like a decade long pause where it wasn't readily available to most of us or it was very risky in another sense.
Desiree 12:11
Exactly. I mean being abroad during that COVID time as well for us as a family. It meant we were separated from our family back home. We couldn't go home for four years. Okay, four years seems long, but I was also pregnant and had that I had a newborn which was another reason why I had to skip a year and couldn't travel right but it was a good couple of years until we were able to see families again. And these are the kinds of things that come with being abroad like we had to say no to many things because we were scared to separate as a family. What if I go home and then all of a sudden I cannot enter Japan anymore because it was really strict. I don't want to be separated while pregnant from my husband. And then all of a sudden we can't be together you know, in this very important phase of our lives. So it's, those are the things are like you know, there's like big anniversaries and birthdays happening back home or you know, sad family events where you cannot always be there. You especially as a family and with children you cannot just pick up and go and jump on a plane it always depends what it is of course, but that those like it comes with a lot of emotional challenges to trade.
Iva 13:34
Yes, it comes with a lot of trade-offs. It comes with as you say same Okay, I can't be going back and forth to be present for all these other milestones, for all these other celebrations that the rest of the family can actually celebrate together and gather because of proximity and for me it's not available.
Desiree 13:57
Oh yes,
Iva 15:05
But what is that right away? What is the trade off of being abroad? What is it that we're gaining at the end of the day and I feel that there's a big there's a huge upside to being able to have this experience on so many levels like I don't know for you this but for me, it ranges from the fact that it can certainly drive you closer to your spouse because when you're navigating together the unknown when you have to, you know you have to sort out so many things and realize okay, do we have the same viewpoints on how we're approaching this? Do we? Do we take the same way in getting organized or are we playing like a good tag team like ‘you're good at this and I'm good at that.’ Let's join forces, let's divide up and conquer so to speak to going through the fact that you gained so much like a deeper for me it's like a deeper understanding of a certain place or location more than you're able to ever get from googling it and reading about it or just general culture that you remember from school days because you're actually living it and you are meeting people that that are taking you by the hand and inviting you to their events, to their celebrations. They're sharing with you their traditions, and you're watching it from this VIP sort of box right where you're like, Okay, I have front row seats, I get to see. For me for example, one of the things that I marvel at is the whole celebration of Chinese New Year in the world. Whereas in Panama, there's a big, you know, Asian community. There's a big Chinese community, but I hadn't been immersed in it. It wasn't really needed for me to be immersed in it because I know I was just in my own sort of like, okay, this is my bubble and this is what's immediate to us. But here's so fascinating, and those are the things that really lights me up. It's like you get this deeper understanding of right now it was the whole Moon Harvest Festival and the mooncakes and it's just it's just really incredible to get to experience that but also to see your children grow up having much deeper insights into new cultures and new ways of things right. They come and my son was telling me about the 12 suns and how somebody shot all 11 and then just one is leftover and the lady that lives… first of all, he started the conversation by saying this Mom, do you know there's a lady that lives on the moon? That's how he started the whole story and I'm like, I'm not sure how to answer this because I don't know anybody who's living in the moon right now. But then he told me the whole you know, Moon Festival and the story behind it and the traditions and then I said oh okay, so it was very cute.
Desiree 18:15
That is adorable. I know, it's exactly what you say, there's so many things you just said now, first of all the like learning about the different cultures right and seeing first of all, what would you like to explore more and learn off and sometimes you're just surrounded by it's you can't really pick and choose, but also what would I like? What would I like to adopt into our family? Right? What are we going to do? And it's funny because also you and me, we already come from two_ we already have two cultures in our families, right? Two or three and we are already trying to kind of find our way around that and then comes our adopted culture of where we're currently living. But how much do we want to let in? Because we don't know how long we're gonna live there either. Right? So wherever I feel like wherever we've moved and traveling and the kids they're so young but they already have a few moves under their belt. It's like from every place we've taken something beautiful, and that really truly grows them into these gorgeous like, yeah, like they have the broadest horizon I feel even in their young years. And that's another thing you mentioned us and our partners, right? It's like navigating, first of all, navigating first of all living together when we're first a couple and then navigating life together as parents where we have to make different decisions and we carry much bigger responsibilities, and then navigating that whole landscape of a different country culture, living in a different place. And like you said, it's a test for families, for sure. You've got to be a good team. You've got to have a solid foundation and yet you're also still rediscovering each other every day it's it's a very it's so hard to describe as it’s like beautifully chaotic and turbulent.
Iva 20:21
And for some people, there's also the “I know that a move is going to happen again”. And I know that I have to start from scratch again. And at the beginning it's a bit the case of you don't know what you don't know. Like, if it's your first time abroad with your family and you're like well I have no inkling I just I just know we have the plane tickets and I don't know what's going to happen once we land and when you have landed. And you know that after this possibly there's another you know move where it's not your hometown or your home country. And it's also starting anew, it's a bit like Oh, I sort of remember right how it was that first time you're bracing yourself because you know that even though you're more seasoned and you possibly it's like also like with the moms right when it's our second child or third. We tend to be a little bit more relaxed because we sort of know what is waiting for us, but not really, as well because it's just that the family dynamic will definitely be different from when you have your second or third than when you have your first and the same happens in moves right. The first time my kids were much younger, it was easier for them to feel like well, nothing has really changed. Mom and Dad are here. So the world is good. When your children are older and they have more of a say then you have to contend with I'm leaving my friends behind, I don't want to go and there's more moving parts that come along. And not every move is going to be the same just because you did it already a few years ago.
Desiree 22:07
Exactly. And I feel what I've really been able to practice over these last decades really actually consciously the last years is gratitude and gratitude and consciously enjoying every single day because I know they are counted in the current country we're living in. Sometimes we find ourselves like right now we are in Tokyo. I absolutely love it here. We love our life. We are extremely happy. But every day I also don't take it for granted. And I am grateful for each and every day I have because I know we're not going to be in here forever. One day that call will come, that conversation will happen where like it's gonna be time to move soon. So, you know we are in our routines and I feel again, it's a whole mindset thing but I don't think we have the opportunity or the chance to get into a rut or to get into a like this never ending like clockwork routine and it gets boring because our lives are not boring. They are not, you know, things happen. There's so many things to learn and absorb every single day and really to be grateful for them because they're not gonna last forever.
Iva 23:33
And there's something that you said as well, which I love about traveling in and of itself but also being in a completely different culture, where the language is also different. Everything seems to just be very, very exotic. It also keeps you in the present moment, because you have to pay more attention to navigate it. You have to pay more attention to what are those things that are not considered appropriate or you know that are good manners like sometimes you do them because you don't know any better but you're actually coming across as being you know, very rude or you know, in the best of cases ignorant because
Desiree 24:16
Right it's like to concentrate more every day.Yes
Iva 24:21
Like people you know, in Latin America. I think in the US as well. The approach is, you know, you take out a business card, you give it out. But here there's this you know, it's like using both hands it’s like a certain gesture as a certain way of receiving it as well. Not putting it in your back pocket type of thing, right.
Desiree 24:43
Like never giving anything with your left hand.
Iva 24:45
Right. Yeah. And so those are the things that that are quite interesting and then you start to be like more conscious of that and you're more present. That's, that's what I mean to say like it makes you be a little bit more also open. That there's other points of views, that there's other ways of thinking that there's other ways of, of viewing situations and approaching a particular aspect of life when you're coming from that perspective, and from that context. So I love it. And I think that ultimately what it comes down to is that beyond the financial aspect that might come with an opportunity that presents itself and that's why you are in this new country, for at least for us, women and I feel that for our listeners, the success in the whole living abroad chapter of your life is about creating a fulfilling and enriching life for yourself and your family in this new environment. And that is ultimately what we're after. Because, as you say time really ticks by very quickly you don't know when it's time to pack up and go and all that you're left with are our memories and experiences and those moments that made you laugh those moments that really stuck with you because they moved you, because they were very profound, because you realize that you won't get to experience them again, possibly not within that same context and so forth. So what you said about being grateful and coming in with an open mind and an open heart really is what is at the core of living abroad. And there's this beautiful quote by the late Anthony Bourdain, who said, “The journey changes you. It should change you. It leaves marks on your memory, on your consciousness, on your heart and on your body. You take something with you, hopefully you leave something good behind.” And I think that's a little bit what this leaving abroad experience should do to all of us, or at least what our aim and hope is, that we take something but we also change and impact other people's lives as we pass.
Desiree 27:20
Absolutely. So our family, we've decided to collect certificates. Every time we move. We've got married in Singapore so marriage certificate there. One of our children was born in Hong Kong, the other one in Kyoto, we decided to do things along the way. And so these memories are embedded within our family already our journey is with us forever in a day so it's beautiful. But living abroad with all we've just mentioned as well, that also makes it so challenging. Like it gives a whole different facet of the challenge for us spouses that are coming that are completely the backbone of this whole moving operation. However, what if we want to do something for ourselves, right? What if we then say, Okay, I've possibly given up my job and my career to do this, this beautiful, beautiful life together. But like us, like you and me, Iva like there's something more that we wanted and that we pursued and I think that the road we've chosen to travel on is not to look sometimes also with all these visa restrictions, right? We can even if we wanted to, we can’t necessarily go out and look for a job, a part time job while the kids are at school. Even if they wanted to. We're not allowed. Depends where you live. But yeah, so we have we have organically both and you can listen to it and our previous episode. Like arrived into our beautiful online businesses where it really doesn't matter where we work, right, embrace that or like arrangements and paperwork and paperwork involved there. But it is possible and I think one of the most beautiful benefits is that when we have that conversation one day that there is a new move ahead. We can literally close your laptop and we can go and we can go just be don't have to do anything else but pick it up and open it back up and then continue from there. And I think it's a huge advantage and even a favor for us and our family by being present as much as we choose to be present as much as we our children need us depending on their age, depending the situation the circumstance, right, our spouses need our help. We need to arrange so many things yet. We never lose sight of what we've built. And we can continue that even from the airport lounges or from the school yards, you know, we can find harmony and at all.
Iva 30:25
Yes, you've said it really well. The desire ultimately is that you have a harmonious journey, where you get to go back and forth between your business, your family, and this new culture where you're at and to thrive. And to feel that you're thriving no matter what and as you said, we have spoken about this as well about the seasons of life in some seasons, the family is going to take center stage more, or most of the time, in other seasons, you can you can be more focused on the business in other seasons, it's just about making those memories and saying, you know, right now, it's just being abroad and having this experience, and settle down while we, you know, what, well, we catch a rhythm of sorts, and it's not automatic. But regardless of that, if you keep that perspective of saying, Okay, what do I have in front of me and how can I make the most of it? And that, again, that being grateful, having that open mind, that open heart, that things are moving in the way that they need to move, and that you can trust, just give it your all, give it your best disposition, give it the best energy that you can put into it. Sometimes it's very challenging, yes, because people go through things Life is life. Things happen, right? We can be very adversely affected by circumstances and you know, many, many things that happen in real life. And it's about also even taking that time to be compassionate and allowing ourselves to go through what we need to go, be it you know, the loss, be the pain, whatever challenging moment might come our way, but also knowing that we become stronger through that. Also knowing that we become wiser through that, and also knowing that there's always light on the other side. And that it's not the first time that we that we experience, a challenging situation or a painful situation and that we can come out stronger because of it.
Desiree 32:42
Iva I love these conversations with you where we had our notes, we had what we wanted to talk about in front of us, but then this conversation takes a whole different direction in the most organic beautiful, genuine way describing our lives. And I think this this episode is like a true example about how we got started with this podcast, where it's just two friends, talking, having a conversation and literally having pressed record on that. So stay tuned for future episodes where we dive even more into these topics about how to navigate lives abroad as a mom, as a working mom, as a spouse, you know, like actionable tips you can take home but also like how to design your business , how to design it the way we want living through the seasons of our lives. We can be there fully, we can live through this, this harmony and do it all and do it all while having fun.
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