TRANSCRIPT

Love and Business | Couples in Entrepreneurship

 

I am Iva Perez and I am here with my beautiful co-host Desiree Gonzalez.

 

Hi, Des.

 

Hello, Iva.

 

Always good to be back.

 

I know.

 

I know.

 

It's always a happy place when we're in the studio, isn't it?

 

Always.

 

I love being here.

 

And we're always exploring new topics and new ideas and new things that come to our minds, because let's face it, we're very creative.

 

We're very multi-passionate.

 

We're always in that space of exploration and learning new things and seeing what else is out there.

 

And also coming back to the nature of our podcast, it often comes, especially lately, out of conversations that we have or things we naturally talk and ask each other about.

 

And we literally have to stop ourselves and say, let's press record on this conversation.

 

Yes, yes.

 

And it's all about topics that in one way or another do have resonance with us because of that, as you said, because of life experiences or because we're starting to enter a certain season of life or a phase or stage.

 

And so today we want to talk about a lesser explored territory, one that we haven't really mentioned before in all the four seasons of the podcast that we've had so far.

 

Because when we explain a little bit the concept of going into business for ourselves, there's so different variations and ways to do that.

 

You can go at it alone and do a solopreneurship.

 

You can do an entrepreneurship style where there's a lot of collaboration or you have a team, or you're really looking into building something that brings on board so many people.

 

Then there's monpreneurship, which is a beautiful space where you're changing diapers and building your business at the same time, or raising a young family.

 

And then there's this other variation, and one that we haven't yet talked about, but this is the whole topic of today's episode, is when you are working together with your spouse.

 

And that is like a new frontier, I would say.

 

I know.

 

I think one area that we've really explored, I think we've built ourselves, we're building ourselves up to that.

 

Like you said, there's the entrepreneurship, the mompreneurship, which gives that extra layer of challenge, right?

 

And then we added on one, which like the name of our podcast is because we're abroad as well.

 

So the Mom Boss Abroad ship.

 

I don't know how we call it, but it's because we're abroad, we're away from our support network, we're navigating visa restrictions, international company and corporations, we have to deal with taxes in different countries.

 

It's like a whole different set of challenges, right?

 

And like building up local networks from scratch every couple of years when we need to move.

 

But I think all of that is challenges that we tackle sort of on our own or everything.

 

But yeah, what happens when our spouse is then joining, either joining us or decided to create a business on its own and somehow maybe it'll even merge with yours, or bottom line is you are going to be working together somehow in some shape and form.

 

And when we first talked about this and explored this, we're like, oh, okay, interesting.

 

Well, maybe this is also a dream for many couples, right?

 

Where they travel somewhere and they start imagining what will life look like if they owned a bed and breakfast, or if they sold everything and moved to a completely new country and began a business in whatever that is that calls out to them.

 

But they are envisioning this idea of doing it together and working together.

 

So before we take a leap into that ideal scenario where there have been many couples that do that, as you said, there can be a preface of things where someone is thinking about making a shift or is starting to do something in parallel.

 

And you know that paths are going to start crossing emerging business-wise because it's a natural progression of your shared dreams and goals for yourself and for your family.

 

And just starting off the bat, for me, that is something that has this amazing vibe to it because already you are building something.

 

I mean, you know, in collaboration, you have a family, you have a family unit, you're raising children.

 

So you are already on board with a very important project in hand, which is being a family, raising children together.

 

And now the idea of saying, okay, can we take that to the next level and start doing something that is more business oriented?

 

What does that look like?

 

And I feel there's this whole space to explore that sounds really fascinating to me.

 

How does it sound to you, for example, when you consider this idea of, oh my God, we do have the family that we're raising.

 

We are parents to children, and we are doing this beautiful project and looking into entrepreneurship for the two of you.

 

I know.

 

Actually, that thought of mine already entered so many years ago, even before we were married.

 

And I had kids because we did come from the same industry.

 

And thinking about, gosh, what would it be like if we were actually working in the same hotel?

 

You know, if he was actually my boss, or what if we were kind of working somehow in projects in the same hotel?

 

You know, HR issues aside, whether that's actually allowed as a couple or not in that particular hotel.

 

But, you know, thinking these thoughts, that'd be so interesting.

 

And naturally, you're attracted to a person because of how they are, how they act, how they are maybe with other people.

 

I mean, something attracts you to that person, right?

 

But I think there's also a very important way to distinguish because some people can be completely different when they're home, or in like their social and their private life, or when you put them into a work environment, right?

 

People can also be very different.

 

I think, first of all, you need to like kind of know or suss out, like what is it like?

 

For us as entrepreneurs, it's super like simple in a way, because especially mompreneurs, everything merges together.

 

Like in like the minutes, you know, we have to have our work hat on, but maybe on the other side, we're preparing, we're cutting an apple while we're still on like a work hall and like trying to feed our children, you know, like things kind of cross boundaries so much that it becomes often a gray zone.

 

It's not black and white.

 

But let's say someone who is in a corporate world can do that switch, can be like, boom, I'm at work now.

 

This is my, this is how I am, this is how I act.

 

And now I'm at home and I can be possibly a different person.

 

So I think it's also important to, first of all, think, like, how is that in your relationship?

 

You know, like, who, who are you together as a couple and who are you in when you have your working hat on?

 

I really didn't answer your question, did I?

 

It does also get me excited, but also a little bit curious.

 

You do bring a lot of good points into it because it is true.

 

In my particular situation, we did end up working together in the same office when I was back in my corporate reincarnation.

 

And, okay, it was the same office building, but the office was split into two different operations, if you will.

 

So he was in the global part.

 

I was in the local part.

 

So there was a little overlap in terms of, oh, we have the same meanings together.

 

But there was overlap in the sense that you go out for lunch, and you'll be either lunching together or you'll be seeing each other lunching with other people because there are a few places around, or in the hallway, pathway, corridor, or there are certain events during the year that bring both operations together, and so you're going to have to experience the same type of event or reunion or what that is.

 

And I have to say, it was quite interesting because we were both very professional about it.

 

People knew that we were together, so we did check with HR first, and we were not going into any illicit type of deals.

 

So people knew that we were together, but we always kept very professional.

 

And it was a little bit like seeing someone that you know, but at least for me, it's very easy to compartmentalize.

 

So I wasn't feeling, how can I say, insulted or angry or upset if he passed me quickly on the hallway and he was like, hey, hey, and that's it.

 

And it wasn't this romantic, like, oh my God, you look so beautiful.

 

I can't wait to, you know, to see you tonight type of thing because it happened every day.

 

So I wasn't really expecting it either.

 

And to some extent, it was actually nice to not cross each other during the day because it also, I mean, at least for me, again, this is my personality.

 

Sometimes it's like, okay, together, but apart.

 

We need the together, but apart type of thing.

 

So yeah, so that was quite interesting.

 

And now fast forward to present day.

 

Sometimes I do have like a co-working hub here at home when my husband works from home.

 

Oh, you do that?

 

Yes, so he sometimes is here on certain days.

 

And it's really funny because he's the chattiest colleague that you will ever find.

 

Like he's always stepping into my office every five minutes talking to me about this and about that.

 

And I'm trying to just get my work done because again, as you have said, my time is limited or I have to go somewhere, or I know that the kids are coming at this time.

 

And then they want absolute attention and focus, whereas he can still close the door and not come out until dinner time.

 

Right.

 

So that's the difference.

 

So it's really interesting how you get to, as you said, get to see the different personality and see how the person interacts in that environment as such.

 

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Yesterday, my husband is off often because of the nature of his work, sometimes on a weekday.

 

So, he was off yesterday and he's like, oh, let's go do this and I was like, it's Monday and I need to get things done.

 

But that's also then finding a bit of a middle ground, you know, to see how can I make this work and we find harmony, right?

 

And eating lunch together, sitting somewhere together.

 

So, I kind of made him check out my working office, like cafe outside, which he thought was really cool.

 

And we ended up doing a little bit something like parallel, but then together in the end.

 

And I was like, oh, this is interesting.

 

I'd love to have more of that, to be honest.

 

So much fun.

 

But I think one thing is like interests are often like different, right?

 

Of course, like it's different interests, different passions.

 

And he's often thinking like, what will I do later?

 

This world of entrepreneurship really fascinates him and he loves it.

 

And one day, he definitely will be in it.

 

I know already.

 

But like, what will he do?

 

But then naturally, I think we also try to kind of find that rhythm or that way or that path, which brings us like, I like what you said, together, but apart, you know, where you say you have something that's not completely like different, like that one is like the stock market and one is like the woowoo holistic world, right?

 

Like, that would be completely different.

 

But naturally, we are going to find a way.

 

How could we possibly make what you're passionate about?

 

And I'm passionate about how could somehow that intertwine at one point?

 

Because some may not want it.

 

Some may want it completely separate.

 

But I think because of our nature, we would like that, you know, and maybe not completely.

 

We don't know yet.

 

I think it's still like a thing you will explore.

 

But of course, that starts these thoughts like, well, yeah, and we are working together, you know, and and, you know, there are so many possible combinations that are as valid as they are incredibly aligned, depending on who the people are that are involved, what your personalities, temperaments, stage of life, family conditions, factors, et cetera, that there's no one size fits all.

 

But for the sake of just exploring and getting some juices going, I tend to compare this business partnerships with the romantic partnership as well, because in some cases, for some people, the courtship period, where you go from, we're single, we're getting to know each other to be married, and having a family is like from zero to 100 in three seconds.

 

It's whirlwind.

 

It's like, oh, my God, we just felt it.

 

We just knew it.

 

Boom, we're in there.

 

For other couples, it takes a little bit longer.

 

It could be circumstantial.

 

It could be economical.

 

It could be so many things.

 

But then after several years together, then they decide that it's time to take the leap.

 

And there's so many other situations in between.

 

So I would say that when considering this idea of, yes, we like the idea of working together at some point, or we like the idea of having businesses that correlate to one another, or somehow they have this shared commonality that we can later merge or look into fusing together, it's important that we don't feel that we have to have a conversation, and then that's it.

 

Like, let's run.

 

It could be several rounds of conversations in a multiple different way and through a longer period of time to really get to, okay, what is it that you're after, and what is it that I'm after, and what does that look like?

 

So it's also very valid.

 

But what the important thing is is that you definitely talk about it, is that you definitely talk about what is it that you want out of this business or life in general or the next chapter, and what is it that they want.

 

And this is not only, oh, because we're going to go into business together.

 

This is also like checking the pulse of the relationship, of each other, of everything, every once in a while.

 

And that is something that I have to say, I feel very happy that my husband and I do have that.

 

And it's very informal.

 

I don't have to block a time in his calendar to do this.

 

But if you feel like that hasn't been the case, then by all means, go ahead and book it, because it is important to have a check-in and to really discuss, okay, this year, what does it look like for us, or what are the plans, or this is where we're at.

 

There's a lot of unknown factors.

 

But can we come up with a couple of plans or alternatives?

 

If this happens, if this happens, or if this happens, right?

 

What would that look like for us?

 

And aligned to that, I would add to really do a check-in about where you stand with regards to your values and what you believe in and what you are all about.

 

And I think that is so, so, so, so important.

 

Now, I'm not going to say names, but I just recently had the experience of watching someone go into that space of saying, I'm going to start this venture and I am so excited and I want to get up and running.

 

And so what I'm going to do is I need to have a logo and I need to have my colors and I need to have this and I need to have that.

 

And I wasn't being consulted or I wasn't being asked for feedback.

 

So because I am in human design, I am a generator.

 

My strategy is to respond.

 

And if I'm not asked for something in a certain way, not in a question, what I mean to say, if I'm not tapped for that, then I know best than to stay quiet and just let everybody go through the experiences that they need to go.

 

So off they went and they hired someone to do a logo.

 

And it's been a bit of a, for lack of a better word, it has been very not good.

 

So my take on that was, wow, had I, you know, if I could have given my two cents, I would have asked that person to really first settle the foundations of what their values are and what those values are about so that they can be better...

 

Translated into the brand name.

 

Correct, into the brand name, into the logo and all of that.

 

And so this person was going like, oh, but I already started, so now I need to go back, I need to go forward.

 

And it's also a bit confusing for the people that you hired to get this type of work done.

 

So this is just a very tiny example, but it just serves to illustrate that having those basic foundation questions, even though you feel like you have answered them or asked them many times before, well, this time is different because we're always growing and evolving.

 

And the person in front of you, even though you married them and you are celebrating your ex-year anniversary, it doesn't matter.

 

They are also growing and evolving too.

 

And sometimes we take that for granted and we think, oh, I know him inside out or I know her inside out.

 

I know her favorite color that hasn't changed in 10 years and this and that.

 

But you'll be surprised to discover certain nuances and things about the other person as you progress through life.

 

Especially if there are new situations.

 

Especially if there are new situations.

 

So this is a great reminder and or advice to really just come in with a novice mindset.

 

Because here's the problem that I could see if I were to go into business, let's say, with my husband right now, and I didn't apply that, what would happen is that because you're taking for granted the fact that you live with this person, that you share kids with this person, like every tick and every pet peeve and everything that makes them who they are, every quirk and so forth.

 

And you bring that into a business setting and you say, oh, because I know them so well, they would do this, they would do that.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

You could be right, but you could also be very surprised about a different answer, response, way of looking at things in that context.

 

So it would be something to just do those check-ins with.

 

Totally.

 

It's so important.

 

No, no, absolutely.

 

I think for me, one big thing, I think, to figure out would be, where do you draw the line between business and personal life?

 

Because we're already, like, we're already trying to juggle that, right?

 

Like, I try not to work when the kids are home, you know, I try to be that full-on mom mode, but sometimes some other things creep in, you have to juggle many things up at once.

 

But then if you are going into business together, and for us as entrepreneurs, it goes, we don't have days off, unless we consciously say, you know, but like, especially at the beginning, so it's just your turn to grow.

 

You often don't have, you may only work a few hours on the days, but you work every day, right?

 

Or even on, you don't have those holidays where nothing, when everything shuts down, right?

 

Because your business is still like evolving, right?

 

So, but if you're in it together, then also, yes, it can consume you 24-7 if you're passionate about no problem.

 

Like, I never see it as work because I love what I do.

 

But when you're in it together, when is the boundary of like, okay, let's take off our working entrepreneur hat and become a romantic couple again, right?

 

I think that is really important too.

 

And I don't think you can plan it.

 

I think you just need to be consciously aware of it and then see to kind of like, you know, get into that mode together and to try trial and error and see what works and of course, you know, family time and times off and where we're going to like cuddle together on the couch and watch a movie with a glass of wine or something and not both sit in front of our computer, even though we love what we're doing, but we need that couple time as well.

 

That is not working related.

 

And I feel that to your point, this is where being aware and intentional does play a role until it becomes natural and you're able to switch back and forth from one side of the fence to the other side.

 

I can tell that on my particular situation, sometimes I do have clients that are friends.

 

And then it's a similar situation.

 

It's like, okay, if they are inviting me to a social gathering versus this is a call that we're having for the purpose that we're working together, it's a matter of being intentional and understanding that you have to really just take this hat off.

 

You cannot come at it from that energy, from that viewpoint, from that perspective, because it's not needed, it's not wanted, it's not really going to yield the end result that you want, which would be in one case to have fun and enjoy yourself and have a connection.

 

And the other one is to really come in and help and be that third party person that comes and helps for a particular set of issues or situations that are happening.

 

So I would say that yes, as long as there's communication and then there's the feeling that you can openly talk and discuss certain things, I feel that that is a really big cornerstone.

 

And also understanding that it's not personal, it's business, right?

 

And there have been certain times where I have shared something with my husband, and he has nothing to do with my business, by the way.

 

But I do share because obviously we connect or he asked me, he has a true interest in what I'm doing.

 

I also am very excited about the things that I do, so I like to share them, of course.

 

And sometimes I get met with this boom in my face type of assessment or comment or just like, hey, I'm looking at it this way.

 

This is what I think type of thing.

 

Not something you need to hear at that moment, maybe, right?

 

Or maybe not expected, not expected.

 

It's not coming from a bad place, but it's just sort of like, oh, wow, okay, he's not being my husband at that moment.

 

You know what I mean?

 

He's not being the romantic partner.

 

He's just giving it to me like he would give it to a colleague at work as well.

 

So when I'm able to see that for that, I don't get upset or I don't get anything because it's also important for me to be able to receive this type of comments and feedbacks.

 

And to receive doesn't mean that you accept or that you agree with them.

 

There's a big difference.

 

To receive means can I just be in the space where, okay, this has been said to me, I can digest it a little bit, I can see what applies and what doesn't, and let it go if that's the case.

 

And if it does have a grain or element of truth, okay, it's food for thought, then let me go back and really digest it a little bit more and see what comes up for me.

 

So that is the space that I come from.

 

So it is very important to, I would say in this case of, okay, drawing the line between business and personal life, how equipped are either or are both of the partners involved in creating that distinction?

 

Because you will need it.

 

We all do.

 

And as I said, I don't necessarily go through that at the moment with my husband, but I see it when, as I said, when I have clients that are also friends.

 

And sometimes they want to talk for the sake of let's catch up and let's connect as friends.

 

Like I'm not looking for anything other than that.

 

And so understanding what my place is in that situation is important.

 

Yeah.

 

I love sometimes it comes so natural, doesn't it?

 

I remember when last year you came to visit me for the first time by yourself.

 

And it was complete without having spoken about it before.

 

We don't know it was the first time we met in person.

 

It was complete friend mode.

 

Getting to know each other like on a different deeper level, right?

 

And actually, we wanted to do all these work things and we didn't.

 

We couldn't because we were so busy just being friends.

 

And we actually had to schedule in time to get a few things done that were essential since we were together.

 

So it was quite funny, right?

 

It comes.

 

But speaking about these boundaries, I think one other one that I know I probably in our dynamics would have to apply is really to establish our zones of geniuses and drawing boundaries around those and then also making sure that we stay within those boundaries.

 

Okay, of course, a lot of it is overlapping, but there are some things that I do, which is really my knowledge and my know-how and my way of expressing.

 

And because I've gone deep in it already, it's good to have a different viewpoint, like you said, and to catch up and to everything.

 

But sometimes it's just let my zone of genius also be, because this is where I perform at my best.

 

And on the other hand as well, there's things my husband does, which first of all, they don't interest me at all.

 

Some things, but they need to be done.

 

But that's what he's really good at.

 

And I definitely already know, I'm not going to meddle in that.

 

But we have these things, and then if certain decisions are made, we also should respect those decisions because they happen in his zone of genius.

 

There will be something, there will be like a reason behind it or a bigger plan behind it.

 

And same for the decisions I make, but of course, common things, like big things you'll discuss, but like just not meddle or tackle the same things because we are different people.

 

We will do things differently.

 

So we should kind of draw out the lines about this is my zone, this is your zone, right?

 

And complement each other, play on each other's strengths, like iron out each other's weaknesses through our strengths, and then also harness each other's energies, right?

 

Because probably something you're trying to build alone will not propel you as fast as all of a sudden you're working on it together, and boom, you know, it takes off in a whole different dynamic, because there's also mixed energies.

 

There's like collective energies, right?

 

And I think that's also something so important to keep in mind.

 

It's not to do with like competition.

 

I think that's one thing when you're not at that energy level yet, where you may say, what, how come this is all of a sudden taking off?

 

It's because of his contribution, it's taking off.

 

I couldn't handle it by myself before.

 

No, but it's the collective energy coming together, that rocket fuels what you're trying to do.

 

So embracing that, again, it's the whole mindset.

 

It's the whole like manifestation of common goals, of success, of the, you know, that beautiful journey you're building together.

 

Oh, yes, it's one of those mindset shifts that sometimes also needs to be in place or that needs to be implemented so that things really run as smoothly as they can.

 

However, keeping in mind that entrepreneurship is a long game, entrepreneurship is very unpredictable as well.

 

Entrepreneurship can be very frustrating and it can bring certain things to the surface that we need to find ways to really be able to navigate them.

 

And what might ruffle your feathers might not ruffle their feathers, which is very similar to what happens when you're raising a family together.

 

There are certain behaviors that for you, your child is doing that you're like, oh, okay, but your spouse gets super, super triggered.

 

It's like for them, it's a hard line in the sand and vice versa in other types of situations.

 

So for me, what comes up when we do talk about this whole topic about, oh, you know, going into business with my spouse, what would that look like?

 

So many things to consider, so many things to take into account.

 

Sometimes what I tell myself is, hey, we are already in business together in a way, in the business of raising two young children and getting them ready for the real world and trying not to mess them up along the way.

 

Trying to really have empowered self-sovereign, independent, confident human beings that have that empathy, that human side to them, that care about the planet and others and so forth, so that they are really well-equipped to make powerful new changes on this planet.

 

And so if we're already doing that together, and this is the most important project that we'll ever undertake, like honestly, it's like you only get one chance.

 

In entrepreneurship, you get a million chances to get it right.

 

If this didn't work out, you can try again.

 

If this path just closed up, then you're able to find a new path and do it over and over and over again as needed.

 

And if at the end of the day, what you lose is money, then it's fine because it's money.

 

You can make it back.

 

But when it comes to your children and their childhood, you only get that one chance.

 

That's it.

 

And guess what?

 

You are already doing it together.

 

Whether you have aligned, whether you have made the business plan on the family situation, whether you have discussed your values or not, you are already doing it.

 

Like it's already on their way.

 

How far along you are, well, then you need to assess, right?

 

What age are my kids?

 

How much time do we actually have to get them in the track that they need to be?

 

And there's a whole episode that we did on that and bring your tissues because it's quite intense.

 

But as a mindset shift, it's just business, you know?

 

Not to belittle it, but it's like you are already in this beautiful collaboration together with your spouse.

 

And if you want to take it to an extra added layer of padding, which now is entrepreneurship together or doing something in the business space together, then I would say, well, don't feel that it's daunting or you don't need to feel that it's this whole other thing.

 

Because for the better part of things, you are already employing most of the skills, most of the coordination and synergies that you would need over here already in the space of what you're doing as a family and raising children.

 

I'm excited.

 

I'm really excited.

 

I know that path will lead us there at one point, right?

 

And it is super exciting.

 

It's a whole new opportunity to get to know your spouse on a whole different level, to make even more connections, even more, to deepen the relationship on so many fronts.

 

Let's keep those conversations going, because I think there's many things we had in the following years.

 

I hope we have each other's backs if we need to talk as well.

 

Yeah.

 

And if you find, I would also say, sometimes we find in the space that we're like, no, I'm good.

 

I don't want to go.

 

I don't want to go into business with you.

 

I know what you're about.

 

We wouldn't make it.

 

We wouldn't make it.

 

We wouldn't make it.

 

Then that is valid as well.

 

Honor that.

 

Honor the space that you're in.

 

Things can change so much as it is because life is life.

 

Maybe you'll find yourself that today is a hard no.

 

Maybe in a few years, so many things change that you're open to it and you're looking at it from a completely different perspective.

 

That doesn't invalidate your decision today.

 

It just means that you have new information to ponder and to act on.

 

So whatever you decide, again, there's so many ways that you can die deep into this world of entrepreneurship.

 

We just wanted to bring in this little added idea of, okay, what about if the husband or the spouse comes into the picture and you really want to start building something together?

 

And we hope that this episode inspires you to take some considerations so that you either feel excited and ready like Desiree is, and myself as well.

 

I feel that my husband has been bitten as well by the entrepreneur bug, and he's also very keen to go into that direction.

 

And or whether you feel that, no, definitely for me, not right now, I don't view it as such.

 

And then you can always get yourself a business bestie like Des is to me, and you can get to do a lot of fun stuff with that person then instead.

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