TRANSCRIPT
Magic and Truth| Nurturing Honest Conversations About Santa
Iva 0:55
In today's episode with my beautiful co-host, Desiree Gonzalez, we are going to be diving into this delicate topic of how to talk to kids about Santa Claus.
Desiree 1:10
Hi, Iva. It's so it's so real at the moment, isn't it?
Iva 1:17
Well, yeah, it's a conversation that many of us find very challenging. And I would have to say my personal experience it has been quite triggering and also irritating as it was something that happened very recently and that's why it also prompted this conversation that we're going to go into but just to set the stage for the for what we're going to share today. This conversation about Santa Claus is going to be inevitable. And the I guess the crucial balance comes when your kids are still quite young. My youngest one is six years old. And then also is like navigating that question of how do we approach the whole aspect of it without shattering the magic and the wonder of the holiday season because that for me is crucial. That for me is key.
Desiree 2:19
Yes, absolutely. It is such an early conversation that we start and it's really, really important that we know how to just keep on navigating it and to have this dialogue with honesty and integrity. And that's exactly where the struggle begins. Isn't it?
Iva 2:40
Yes. Because how do you how do you do it? I think that it entails how how are you honest, but also how are you thoughtful, taking into account where your child is in within that spectrum. So for example, my oldest, he's turning eight very soon. So he is starting to enter an age where it will become actually expected of him to start questioning more and more. Which, ironically, he hasn't done much of and then my youngest who's six, she's still at that stage where I personally as a mom see it and I'm like, yes, she still has to believe. Like, why not? She in that sweet spot of when she's old enough to really enjoy it. And remember it without having this element of, you know, is he real or not real and just shattering all of that. But what happened was that when it comes to when you have multiple kids, like how do you navigate as well? Because it's different when you only have one child than when you have two and one of them is already entering a stage where they are questioning or it's very normal that they start to question let's put it that way. Although my son still hasn't brought up the question as such in this day and age so it's, a bit like okay, how do we unravel this? So the first thing I feel that is important before we dive deeper is understanding how do we get to set the stage for honest dialogue. Because what you don't want to do and this is my particular opinion is you don't want them to later look back and say well, I was very blatantly lied to. Like they told me that this person was real and he isn't so I have learned that the best way to deflect the question_ the yes or no question_ when it's a yes or no question, which has happened already. So my son did ask at some point Is Santa real or not? And now my daughter came from school just a few days ago. But she has something different. So when you're confronted and this is just my take, but you can use it or you know, let us know if you have a different approach of Okay mommy is Santa real or not? I always deflect the question with another question and I say: Well, what do you believe? What does your heart believe? Do you feel that he's real or do you feel that he's not feel? And then I just send that over to them so that they can have that moment to pause and reflect a little bit because sometimes they just want to have that validation that they in their heart, they still want to believe in something and someone possibly made a comment and now it's making them doubt and so I feel that question might come when they are at a certain age- of course you need to gauge a little bit where they are that they just want that validation from you.
Desiree 6:04
Yes, that that is really true. For me, just to dial it back, just one step is the memories that I have as a child growing up and the Christmas season is truly special. So also the conversation that we're entering is obviously there's going to be so many differences between different families and how they handle things or you know, reflecting how they grew up. So, for me personally, I grew up in such a this warm, like Christmas was always very special. It was never over the top- it was always kept very you know on a very normal level. But the magic around it was beautiful, you know, the coming home after church in the evening and all of a sudden there's presents there. And you know, in Germany we also say it's like the angel that brings the presents not even Santa Claus. So that's also interesting, and we'll get into that later about different countries and cultures and traditions. But, you know, like I remember it so vividly how I felt the magic, that the joy, the excitement, the curiosity. So I think naturally it's something that I want to pass on to my kids and we have been passing on. So yes, for the last few years by eldest is now six, my little one will be two very shortly. They are still very much into the stage of believing about Santa Claus and we because we've built it up that way. So I've never had any concerns right up until the stage really we started talking right Iva about, you know, they're getting older, for how do we equip ourselves to talk about these things? Because on one hand, we want to be these parents that also create these warm memories. These beautiful ride memories. But on the other hand, it's like how practical and how realistic we now need to start thinking as they're getting older. So this would be absolutely a new terrain, so I can't wait to hear your sort of how you navigate the situation as well.
Iva 8:19
Yeah, and I love that you make a little bit that foundation of a case. Let's start off with what was your personal experience of the holiday season because most likely you will want to recreate that in in your own way with your own family. And so if there was a lot of magic and enjoyment and just that feel-good energy of Oh my God, there's something special happening that doesn't happen the rest of the year, it is important to want to preserve it and I do also believe myself that I had a very similar upbringing in that sense. It wasn't over the top or anything. And my husband, his experience was the same as well. However, back to your question as to okay, how do you prepare, I think it is important to at least have a sense of how you're going to handle and tackle this conversation because in our innocent mother's mind, because we can be very naive as well in thinking oh, because my child is still this age, you know? That conversation won't happen until a little bit later. But we are in a world that is, as you say, very globalized, where our children interact with other children from other cultures, different things and so they start to hear and are privy to other types of conversations or children that have older siblings. So you cannot control all the parts of the equation. So being a little bit preventive, I think it's important. It's also important because you don't know who's the one who's going to get approached, it could be you, or they could access your spouse, they could go directly to your husband and say, Hey, Dad, you know, what's the deal? And then what are they going to say? Are we aligned? Are we on the same page? Would you have wanted them to say what they said or reply the way that they reply because it's a little bit like you can't undo what they say. You can't, you know, you can't make one partner look like they are lying or like, oh, no, that's not true. What he said was not correct. You cannot invalidate them. So you have to play along. And I think that that is important. So one of the things that I did and I will share later is I did talk to my husband about it. And I said Hey, this is if I get asked, and I know that it's time to step up and say okay, let's get down to the conversation. This is how I would like to answer it. And this is how I would like to approach it. What do you think? And he's like, Oh, my God, please send me that. I need to memorize that script.That's the way that I also want to say it so then you have like a unified front- now it's a good idea. That's a good idea. Regardless of who gets to have the conversation, I think that it's a conversation that will go in the way I mean, the direction that we want it to go. So this goes back to this setting the stage right the setting the stage of building this trust, and openness in in the parent-child relationship. And that's why this yes or no questions, especially when they're still quite young, like I consider my daughter to be six still to be in this age range. Where I would never answer yes or no to her because I want to keep the magic because I wanted to keep her believing still for a little bit longer. So she came the other day, and she said, Oh, mom, they are saying that. You know Santa is not real that the ones that bring the gifts are the mommies and daddies Is that true? And the first thing that crossed my mind is like, Who is that kid who I want to kill? How dare they break the bubble! Right in the middle of the most wonderful season and I'm trying to go through every hurdle to hide all the presents you know, to make sure that the Amazon boxes are hidden away and trying to you know, keep this you know, thing going on. And then she came and she she said that outright. And so that's where I deflected it. And I said, Well, in your heart of hearts. What do you think, do you do you believe in Santa? Do you believe in him? Yes or no? And my daughter, she's a very particular type of personality. So she doesn't let on that easily. And she said No, but I want you to tell me so she even pressed it even further. Which is harder, right? Because that's hard. Yeah, because my son probably would have gone into the direction that I wanted him to. But she was like, No, but I want you to tell me and I said, But Nina, this is more for you, in your heart. Tell me, what do you feel about this whole thing? And so, in open full disclosure, how that conversation ended was that she got really upset because I didn't give her a clear cut yes or no answer. Because again, I want to keep the trust and the openness in the parent-child relationship. So I had to make a call. I had to make the call and say she's going to be pissed that I'm not answering her question right now. And she's going to have feelings about it. Possibly is going to be one of those challenging afternoons. But I will trade that in a heartbeat than for me to have to say yes or no.
Desiree 14:19
Yeah, right.
Iva 14:20
Those are the calls that sometimes you need to make and then say, okay, she's gonna be pissed. And she was upset for a little bit. And then what happened was that the next day I don't know the conversation, something around gifts happened, and I said, Oh, but okay. So you want that? Oh, yeah, that's what we want. So she said, Oh, this I would love to have and I said, Oh, that's great. You should write it in your in your, in your letter to Santa. And then she's like, Uh huh. And then I walked away and then three, three steps later, I turned around I said, Although Nina, yesterday, you were asking me whether Santa was real or not. So I'm wondering if you're going to write that in your letter. How do you think Santa would feel if you're not really believing that he's real and you're asking for a gift?
Desiree 15:13
That's a good idea. And then what did she say?
Iva 15:16
And there's just like, No, I believe- I believe and I'm like, Okay, but it's you have to make that call. Do you really believe or you're just saying that? Because I was pushing her a little bit more because I really wanted her to get into it since she had brought it up the day before. Then she said No, no, no, I believe I believe, but I said Okay, so then if you truly believe I think Santa would love to get your letter with all the things that you want. And that was the end of the conversation.
Desiree 15:47
Yes, I think that's really, really great. And the fact I am going to keep a note of that when that happens to me because luckily in a way it hasn't happened. I didn't have one of these questions yet. But my little ones also he wants to believe even like maybe an inside of him. He's starting to question he really wants to believe that he wants us to Yeah, so that's nice. But it also that the whole level of like trust is also just such a delicate thing right now because right now we have quite a big situation. Not a big situation, but like I guess it's also normal in their development, where they start to tell maybe not the truth. I don't want to say they're blatantly lying well, but sometimes they are not about serious things. It can be something - Did you wash your hands with soap? and they're like, yes. And I was like, Let me smell- no you didn’t and you know, little things like that. Or like No, I didn't pinch my sister I’m like, Why is she crying and holding her arm? You know, it's like, but it's we're having these whole conversations. About you must tell the truth. So that got me thinking as well these pointers about
Iva 18:14
To be held accountable.
Desiree 18:17
Yes. You told me exactly that. But to keep that, that harmony of we want to create this beautiful magic for you. And that is also why we're doing what we're doing like you know for the later stages when we have that conversation, when they full on know what's going on already. But that's why we did it. For you to believe that we didn't mean to lie or anything. It's about creating some magic. It's a tradition. It's, you know, I think it's quite a tricky one, isn't it?
Iva 18:52
Well one of the things that I have found that also helped to set the stage right and afford this honest dialogue. And I feel there's nothing dishonest about that. I don't I don't think it's disingenuous either. But it's this element of storytelling and using imagination and emotion. So one of the things that I do- we live in a condo and we are on the on the top floors, and some conversations that we have just for the fun of it. I asked them like, guys, so what do you think is going to happen when Santa comes with is sleigh? Do you think the sleigh is outside or where do you think he puts it? Or he parks it or what's going on? And I just like excite their imagination for them to tell me what they think. So for them to come up with their own theories. And I think that in doing that, you're not reinforcing the fact that Santa it's real, but you're playing with their imagination so that they can imagine him being more real because now they have to think about the logistics of things. And of course, my children are a bit older, right? If you have younger kids, then you can still play with their imagination, but you can make it a little bit more simple, right? Oh, you know, Santa is going to come and he's going to drop the gifts and they're going to be under the tree and you really paint a picture for them.
Desiree 20:13
And I think the whole thing about imagination. You're so right. I think it's so important. That whole believing, that imagining, that dreaming about it. And honestly, I love the season so much because it kind of transports me back to that, you know, it makes me imagine and what if it was real and you know, there's so much bad in the world right now. And we covered that in in a previous episode about like the news and all the bad things. So it gets you into this world into this dreamy world, right, which is also very, very nice. And it's very good about painting the picture. So we just celebrated a very German tradition, which is called Nikolaus Tag. So it's Santa Claus day, and it's the sixth of December. And in fact it is the day we are recording, so this is very recent. And there is this whole tradition about cleaning your boots the night before putting them outside the door. And if you are a I'm sure different families have different traditions to that as well in Germany, but the way we did if you were a good kid that year, there may be a little surprise for you the next morning when you wake up, right? If you've otherwise you
Iva 21:29
Get a piece of coal.
Desiree 21:31
It's almost like it almost looks like a broom. And I always tell my kids, I know I know so bad right, but I always tell Luca the story, true story- hi mom if you're listening, you know good job on that one. But I was not a good girl one year or like, you know, probably triggered by me. Yes. I got one one year. It wasn't it was like a black broom. Almost. It looks like a broom like a hooter like a thing you would like, kind of smack the kids but I don't know if that's the right term.
Iva 22:07
Oh my God,
Desiree 22:08
Is that like a thing you would dust off that covers with, you know, something like that, like a broom? It was black, and I got that and I was like, oh, and I told Luka. You know, it's, it's amazing. The memory that kids have, they can't remember you know the things from the day before, but he will always remember the story. Remember mommy you were bad one day and you've got the coal like, yes, yes, yes. Okay, rub it in one more time. And he told me again, but my mom was there with me when he said, Is it true? And then she's like, yes, yes, it's true. Like oh my God, rub it in, rub it in. But that is also a great way of saying you know, like, good cop, bad cop. It kind of if it works in our favor, sometimes about like, be careful. You know, you may get the broom this year, or the charcoal or whatever that family believes in. And so this morning, he did get a present and we did like mandarins outside with the you know in case he comes with the elves, the reindeers are hungry so similar like Christmas Eve, the whole like little carrot things then this morning very early. I you know, broke the carrots in half and then peeled some oranges and scattered it on the floor, which I have already cleaned up now. Otherwise I'll get in trouble with the neighbors or something. But no, it's all cleaned up. And I thought Yeah, they were so excited about receiving something. And but that whole creating the scenes right, it's such a beautiful thing. And yeah, to paint the imagination. How do they get here? That's what I was getting as far as like, how do they get there? How do they arrive? Like what you said, where are they gonna park the sleigh? Like, who do you think is gonna bring it because we also have an elf at home and I have no idea where that tradition came from. I have no idea but we have an elf at home that watches the kids the whole time sent by Santa and he sits in a different spot every day because he moves secretly like in Toy Story a little bit but he like watches the kids to make sure they're good because he reports back to Santa to see if they get presents or not. And so he's like, Who do you think brought it? Was it the elf? Or was it Santa? And I was like, Well, what do you think it was like similar? Oh, yeah, actually I did that. This one's like, what do you think? Who do you think brought it? I think it was Santa. And the reindeer because they ate the carrots the elf doesn't like the carrots -good point. True could be right. It's really cute. You know, just to hear them imagine they almost do not see the pictures. They're painting for themselves. So yeah, it's yeah, it's very nice.
Iva 24:55
Yeah, so besides, you know, setting the stage for having the conversations. It's also crucial to understand what developmental stage your child is in. And I actually wrote an article on that about the different programming stages that kids go through. And so you can pretty much break them down into three parts. There's from zero till eight, there's from eight until about 13 and then 13 until 25. And I know that a lot of listeners might be like, 25? You're pretty much an adult. And my answer is yes. But what happens is that it's not until you're 25 that your prefrontal cortex is fully developed. So, so still like the early 20s are still considered part of this, you know, you know, programming stages and childhood years because even if you have someone that you feel that they are “old enough”, they might still go into the direction of doing things where you're like, but what were you thinking? And the answer is, well, their executive thinking apparatus, which is the prefrontal cortex is still not yet matured. So it makes sense that it's not going to make a lot of logical sense. But understanding your child's developmental stage is crucial. Because for younger children, of course, so I'm talking about up until the age of eight, they are still very immersed in the world of imagination. So it's important to work with that- it's already within their system within their natural stage. To embrace and celebrate the magic of Santa and the season itself. Now as children are entering, you know, the early elementary years, which is where my son would fall into, right, we can start to introduce Santa in in a different way, because the conversation of whether Santa is real or not, would possibly start to come. But that is where it's also important to be a good listener, in the sense of not only what is it that they're asking, but also the timing of this conversation. So if they are already at an age where, you know, my husband and my husband and I did have this conversation in private where he's like, you know, but he's, he's old enough, right? Like how much longer is this going on for? Is he going to play longer or still believe or whatever and my response was, like, As long as he wants to be, I remember that I believed in Santa until I was much older. So I'm like, why do I need to burst his bubble and he’s like, No, I don't mean to burst it. I don't mean that we're gonna sit the kid down next year and be like listen, this is what's happening. Stop believing because the truth is whatever. But he said, but if the question starts to come, deflecting it may not be the right strategy for his age. And I agree with that because that's where you come as an awesome mother. We're really great at that. Like we're very intuitive. So we know when our child is coming to us, really wanting the truth, and where we also are aware that they can handle it, you know, in a mature way. And I know that my daughter, for example, wouldn't be prepared for that. So those are the decisions that I make. And every parent also should assess their own situation. She's also the youngest one. So uh, so this is the last leg for me. You know what I mean? Sorry, my last Christmas where the magic of Santa still is very real
Desiree 28:46
I know. It's a little bit bittersweet isn't.
Iva 28:50
So that's why you want to extend it as much as possible. But you certainly can introduce with this early elementary years where they really are just seeking the truth and they just really want an honest and open answer from you. You can introduce the idea of Santa in a different way and I'm going to share a little bit what I found and I think that this would be like a great script for anyone that is in that situation or about to be in that situation or is feeling that they know someone that could be in that situation, please share this episode. And you could be actually saving a mum this holiday season, from feeling that they are not coming up with the right words or the right way of saying it. And then for older kids were they have already started hearing different perspectives from peers or older siblings, then yeah, for sure. I think it's time. So what are some of the tough questions as we have shared already:
Is Santa's real? It's one of them. How does Santa deliver presents to every child in one night? Like this are the logistical question ones, right? And I feel that there's so you see already in the questions that they're asking that's where you also as a as a good listener, you can start to sift and be like, Okay, what are they looking for with this question? What is it that they really want to gain from the knowledge and information that I'm going to share with them because how does that deliver precedence? How does it work like this and like that, I feel it's more like their developmental brain starting to do a little bit more logical thinking, but they're not necessarily wanting to know the truth and that's a
Desiree 30:51
fantastic sign as well when these questions come. Don't take them with like, oh, no, you know, it's actually a fantastic read. Yes, it's the same thing as when my when my son for the first time, it's actually a fantastic developmental sign because they're able to make these connections. They're able to make up things or you know, of course, you have to do that with guidance or like with care, but even these questions, like you said, they're able to put logic into their questions and questioning Wait a second, how would that possibly work?
Iva 31:28
And right, yeah, it's great. It's also a great opportunity to introduce like, for example, ideas of teamwork, and introduce certain values that for your family are important into the answers, right? Because you can say like, for example, in your scenario where you say, you know, there's an elf, and they're Santa, and they're sort of working together. You can be like, yeah, that's teamwork. You know, yes. It's not only like one person that is in charge of the whole Christmas magic. Santa also has to rely on these other characters to make things come about. So it also is like, Oh, I see. So sometimes not only like the one main character, there's other people that are also helping in their own ways in their own roles. And you can tie that up. Usually I do that. When I talk to my children about okay, what are the roles and responsibilities of Mom? What are the roles and responsibilities of Dad? What are the roles and responsibilities of you, as, you know, being the eldest? What about for you? And it really helps them to understand that each one of us has an important place in the family, but we're not all doing the same thing. And it's not required that we're all the same or that we have to be exactly like one another because, you know, they do make the distinction. Oh, dad goes to the office and dad, you know, makes sure that whatever right and then well, mom, when we're sick she's the one that takes care of us and so forth. So they were already able to see that there's a teamwork in that.
Desiree 33:06
Yes, yes, no, no, very, very true. There's so many aspects and teachings we can put into this situation. And that's another reason why this is this is so great. And we evolve as well through the way we do things year in and year out and the way we talk to our children, and yeah, and again, every family will do it completely different, whatever is aligned to their family's situation. Their cultural backgrounds, their traditions. So it's a very important time I think. Right?
Iva 33:42
Absolutely. So you know, going a little bit knowing to Okay, let's say that you do want to be you feel that for your child, it's already time and you do feel that it's time to have the conversation or you want to keep this for the coming years and so forth. This is this is a little bit what I have found from my own research and I will give the attribution there's an account or a page called i love my life And I Love You. Oh, so this is where I got this, is not it's not mine fully. But when it's time to address the yes or no question. This is a little bit the direction that you can follow and let's say that your child comes to you and they say, okay, Mom, Dad, I really want to know: Is Santa Claus, real? And you can go in and say for example, this is what I'm planning to do. For example, I'm going to say, “Well, before I answer that, I have a question for you. Because the truth has to be handled with care. Because the truth is a very powerful gift. And once you know something, you can't unknow it. Once you know the truth about Santa Claus, you will never again understand and relate to him as you do now. So my question is, are you sure? You want to know? And then if they say “yes”, then I would go and say: ‘Okay, so the truth is, there is a Santa Claus, but he's not an old man with a beard in a red suit. That's just what we tell the kids that are too young to understand the true nature of Santa so we explain it to them in a way that they can understand. The truth about Santa is that he's not a person. For example, think of all the presents that Santa the previous years he gave you, I actually bought those myself, and I watched you open them and it didn't bother me that you didn't thank me for it or that you believed that it was someone else, because Santa is the idea of giving for the sake of giving without any thought of receiving thanks or acknowledgement in return. So now that you know you are part of it, you have to be Santa Claus. So that means that you can never tell a young kid the secret and you have to help us to make sense of and choose you know presents for them. Because the most important thing you have to look for is opportunities to help other people and to give for the sake of giving.” So that's a little bit what I have to say.
Desiree 36:33
That is beautiful. And that answers so many questions about you know, what do we do we have an older child, but we also still have a younger child in the house and we don't want it to go in one year. And ruin the magic for everybody. Right?
Iva 36:48
So you make them part of the club? You give them a new role. And their role is the gatekeeper of the Santa Claus. Spirit, which is which is really that and they feel that this is this is really beautiful, and that's why I went into share with any mom that feels that they will like to have inspiration or some sort of concrete guidance into how to delve into this, because it also brings us to the next part, just to wrap the episode, which is about transitioning to new traditions. Because it will happen
Desiree 37:31
Yes, especially I think when you're a part of a multicultural family. I think it's really important like you're you guys are multicultural families. So are we. And we live in countries that are not our own and these countries again, have their own traditions. So there's three big elements that that play into part. First, I think we need to discuss or sometimes it happens very naturally, very organically, it has so in our family, but sometimes we really need to discuss, okay, I have a truckload of traditions that I'm bringing from my family, from my culture. I am also from a multicultural families that we're bringing in that aspect too. Right? But it's and then you're like, Okay, what do you have and what do we pass on to our kids? Because sometimes too much, is also very confusing. And it's honestly how many presents can we handle in one season? Right? It's just, we have to be realistic as well.
Iva 38:35
Well, as you say, it's, and this is a great point because this just happened as well as you say so Nicholas D was just now and I have no inkling about St. Nicholas, I have no inkling about his story, like the little bits and pieces that I have are because my children are in the German school. And so there are activities where parents are invited and I am then observant of you know, there's these characters that they're referring to this historical figures or whatever, and how it weaves into their culture and their tradition. And so for me what happened recently and this is quite interesting because sometimes you feel you feel like there is actually a transition. And sometimes it just hits you head on without any warning, which is what happened to me. Because my children were part of a lantern. It was like the lantern thing that kids walk around with a lantern and say Nicholas is involved there because the way all of this all of this happens in German by the way so nobody really translates real time for me even though my husband is German but he can be heard. I love you honey, but really he translate in real time what is going on. So I have to make do with my own inference of the situation. And so yesterday or no way actually two days ago, my son came and he said, “Mommy, look, my shoe is clean. And I’m like okay, and he's like, Yeah, because San Nicolas is going to come and he's going to leave something tonight. And that was the day that I was feeling super sick. Like I my head was I was not functioning. I had no clue. First of all, I have no clue about any shoes that had to be cleaned. I did not understand why he was bringing St. Nicholas like for me there was no connection. A gift why? This is almost like 7pm at night and all I wanted to do was just lay in bed and sleep like I couldn't function. But I was I was texting with my husband because he's doing a race. So we were avoiding each other because I didn't want for him to get sick so that that makes it even funny. So we're texting each other and I'm like, Hey, did you put the stuff in the shoes? Like I don't understand what's going on, but something has to be in the shoe. That's the main gist of what I got. And he's like, Oh, but what do we do now? And I'm like, Are you serious? Like I am feeling like crap. Can you help me? I don't even know what we're supposed to do. Is it a thing? Is it a toy? Can you put money? Maybe we can just point like it's a good idea actually. And then the tooth fairy. Oh my god. So luckily, I had some backup toys that still are not wrapped and we put them there. And he was all good. But you know, let's see. So this traditions may also come from school. So it's not really enforced at home like with my husband, he's not like a follower of all this traditions. And I did ask him later like Okay, so what's the deal that we celebrate the lantern thing? Is this the same guy with a cape? Is it the same story? Like I'm so confused. He's like I don't know. Fantastic so we don't know we were celebrating. This is like a it's a shoe thing. Yes. The end of the day.
Desiree 42:07
I know. And it ties in so much. So exactly. It's like choosing what do we sell because in German this is a huge thing. This is something so look forward to putting the boots out and checking the next morning waking up and what's in it what's in it's like this extra present you're getting before Christmas, right?
Iva 42:25
Well, let me say it’s good that you can do it in Singapore. Because if you would do it in Panama where I'm from, like your shoes, stolen
Desiree 12:36
That's so funny. I know. I was thinking the same thing we left about in Japan, no one will take it right but other countries true. It's very true. But yeah, it's like these different traditions. So this is a really big thing. So we decided okay, we'll keep it in. We also have this whole advent calendar. So that's also something where they get something every day. I mean, that's what you need to make decisions, where do we draw the line, but also to keep them in the know, because for example, the Spanish grandparents will then ask, Oh, you know, what did you do for less Reyes, you know, and we're like, okay, we're not celebrating that in our home but it's also important that we tell the kids about these different holidays, or these different traditions so they know what's going on, but they will already get the gist of what we celebrate what we don't. So this morning, that was really funny. Just the Nikolas thing and the present in the boots. We have neighbors, and his best friend is our neighbor. Right? And they're from Australia. They're like, Oh, I wonder if, if she got a present too- I wonder if she put her boots out. So I have to start for the first time explaining that this actually is a very German tradition. So luckily he did not make the connection was like wait a second, but I thought he's going everywhere. Why? How does he know? I'm German and everything, you know? So I was like, this is a very German Trojan so the neighbors will have no idea what was going on. Why that hell there were shoes outside our door last night, right. So it's it's yeah, this is where it starts coming into multicultural people. So we have your kids and my kids. So we go to international schools where there's kids from different backgrounds and ours is also a Montessori school, so they don't consciously don't celebrate these things like Halloween or Christmas. It's a season and they there are like references to it, but it's not like we're going to do a Christmas party or it's not Christmas. It's like a festive season so they keep it very neutral in respect to other cultures because there's enough children in there as well that celebrate other things like Hanukkah, for example. Or there's some that you know, for New Years, it's like a bigger thing and they don't really do Christmas, you know? So that's also explaining why some do and some don't. That's where other challenging conversations are challenging and very interesting because we also get to learn about other traditions like we are some of our best friends in Kyoto were Israeli, so they will always invite us over to their house to celebrate Hanukkah. So I also read up about it and I was like, Oh, that's so interesting, and then explained it to my children and what it is and what we're celebrating and explaining that that's what and Christmas is something we celebrate. So it's there's such interesting conversations to be held around the season. And again, it's so important though to be in the know what are your traditions, in your family, within you and make new traditions -fuse some things together, that you think are worth or not worth celebrating, that are beautiful to celebrate, and why not just make your own traditions as a multicultural family living in a foreign country. I think that's also the magic in itself even for us parents to create something completely new for them.
Iva 46:13
Right. And as you know, it just as some closing remarks, I guess that one beautiful way to go into that direction as you so beautifully shared of you know, what is it that we're choosing from now onwards for what are we really incorporating as part of our values and part of what how we want to embody the meaning and the spirit of the season is also to emphasize the spirit of giving overall to create that focus and not only Santa is the only one that is the gift giver, but how can we as a family create a tradition of giving back to the community? Yes, that also expands our children's notion that it's not only a me, me, me- I receive, I receive I receive, but also, what can I give back and I think that ultimately, regardless of culture, countries, or personal circumstances at the end of the day, this is what brings humanity forward is this collective spirit of how can we all help each other out? So Happy Holidays to everyone. And I hope that this episode has brought forth some great ways that you can start approaching these conversations.
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